"...begotten, not created, of ONE SUBSTANCE with the father..."
I hope, you give yourself an ample time to ponder about "SUBSTANCE". I am afraid, this very foundation of Christian Greed, is not fit for our TWENTY FIRST CENTURY MINDS. It has been vilified by Scientific Progresses, mainly in Biology(Human Embryology and Human genomes). If Issa(pbh) was a human being, with all we know now about OURSELVES, surely how could he(pbh) be the All-Mighty Creator, unless His(swt) is made of VITAMINS & MINERALS !!!??
I am afraid to say this, but Christianity is the most IRRATIONAL ideology, followed by the MOST RATIONAL RACE ON EARTH, what an IRONY??? Through Astronomy and Cosmology, you have proved all those who( Greeks, Romans) took Constellations or any other Natural THING as DIVINITIES, wrong, by studying and identifying exactly what they are: planets and stars and rocks and dust and fire, all part of creation more or less the same SUBSTANCE like us. You do know every step of procreation, yet you fail to differenciate TRUTH, from FALSEHOOD.
No wonder Atheism, through their reluctance into associating, what they believe to the Theory of Evolution, are gaining space. No wonder churches are getting more and more empty. You have been very FORGETFULL of Human Conditions, when you asserted that Issa(pbh), son of Mary(pbher), is the Al-mighty CREATOR. You are making a fool of yourselves. Truth is here, you have unveiled it yourselves through your QUEST for KNOWLEDGE. No wonder the Church was doing everything to keep the mass ILLITRATE(Darkages). Urging people to use their HEART instead of their MIND; whilst we all know how blind is the heart.
Yes! Issa(pbh) like Qur'an, is indeed DIVINE(divine provenance), so are everything else, at certain level. At the beginning there was nothing but AL-MIGHTY CREATOR ALONE. Yet that relationship does not make anything or anyone of us equal to the HIM(most high). The focus on Substance is profoundly wrong and ill-thought, because by doing so, you define the Maker(most high) through TIME and SPACE, rendering HIM( The Omnipotent and Omniscient) feeble, weak & subject. ULTIMATE BLASPHEMY, unworthy of HIM(most high)
Tuesday, 3 February 2009
Friday, 23 January 2009
" Tawhid vs Trinity"
...this is what you said about the three forms of love:
1-self love = egotism this indeed is a quality that belongs to materialistic induviduals; a station that belongs to all those self proclaimed gods, rulers of human affairs. It does not fit any ordinary spiritual person, let alone a prophet. It is indeed the FIRST station of "TAWHID" just IN THE OPPOSITE DIRECTION. Strangely enough, it is a station you give to Issa(pbh) as soon as touch the NEW TESTAMENT: me, my, me, mine, me and my...
that is all you come across, no more ten commendments, no more Allah(swt), but Issa(pbh) alone and worst of all you simply do what the firts element of the TEN COMMANDMENTS forbids you: set associates to Allah(swt). No wonder yo do quote much about it.
3- Pious love: here you said that, it is the best of all form of love, since it consistes of giving with "THREE or MORE, whereby each of the TWO SENSE a NEED in the third and meets that needs.So who is in NEED here amongst the trio or plus?
This is where you knock your head against that might concrete wall that has always stood before those who came up with this silly idea of Issa(pbh) and the Al-mighty Creator and Gibril(pbh). If each one of your TRIO-LOVERS( or Multiple lovers) can be in such NEED so much so that the others can SENSE it, then you render all of them into a station of FEEBLENESS and WEAKNESS. This is where the Old Testament and Al-Qur'an comes in to put things on a straight-path("SIRATUL-MUSTAKI MA).
By the way, something else I wanted to ask you, if you don't mind. When did you find this LOVE in Bible? Because it seems to me that, it has been MISSING through out the history of CHRISTIANDOM to date. Otherwise how comes, the Church has enslaved its own congregation, by torture(inquisition), Rape and Murder(Mediaveal European wars, War I&II, the killing of native American, the Wild West stories, the killings of Southern Amerian Natives, the killings of Australian Natives, the killings Africans..
Why is it, with your claim of love as the message of Issa(pbh); you went around the globe, killing innocents people, and still you are doing it? Why is it, in the name of love you destroy people and their cultures. You talk about love in your community, this is far from truth, I am certain there are more MISTRUST and HATRED in that community of yours than anywhere else in the world. It is all too good to sit rught there in the confort of your living room and spite out all these NONSENSE
"Trio-lovers" and "multiple lovers"
Well my apologies if you find this is offensive. I do not mean it in that context; but of course, can you avoid people's mind wondering to that extend. So you see how complecated is your ways of explaining something that simple? This is why, "Tawhid is the first and foremost law or pillar in a TRUE MONOTHEISTIC RELIGION. Allah(swt)'s CREATION is so COMPLEX let alone HIMSELF(Unique in His Uniqueness)."trinity is God, Jesus and Mary" ask Catholics about that .
"...Honestly, you equivocate constantly. Respond to the points raised, not the inferences you hear..."Hear yourself saying,I am "Ambiguous" funny, isn't? The very issue we are arguing, the Ambiguity you surround the relationship between, Al-mighty Creator and His(most high) creation, instead of put it as simple as a slave and MASTER(Most Gracious). You are trying to be philosophical about it, by using words and expect people who hasn't got your mental capabilities to take it in as you want.
"...Inner Lillahi wa inner Illeyhi Razi-una..."The purpose of Islamic "Tawhid" is not to DEFINE or to try and Identify; what constitutes the Most High, instead the seeker will find him/herslef before a station filled with WONDERMENTS and a feeling of self Annihilation(Laa- illah illa HU, Al-wahidul AHAD)...(...010101010101000010 100010100010101010100010001010 001010101010001000001000010101 0...)."self-refuting",I would not use that word, because the matter is not US but HIM(Alone Praiseworthy)
"...I was raised in the Catholic Church, and was never taught "God, Jesus and Mary" as the Trinity. You are wrong...".
Well then you are not quite informed about a worldwide Catholic practices. Travel to Southern America or to the far-East, ask people what they think of Mary(pbher): "LADY" in heaven. Again this is why I ask you, how do you deal with the question of Mary(pbher)? For logic tells us: if Issa(pbh) is god' son and Mary(pbher) his(pbh) mother then please conclude that for me. You see?
Yes! I can see that you "love" philosophy, so did Kant and so did Freud, and Satre and especially Nietzsche. There is an empty space in your Theological Philosophy, you are trying through the BLINDNESS of LOVE to enter a FORBIDEN DOMAINE. Therefore to associate the seeker and The Most SOUGHT after: the Sublime and the ULTIMATE.May be you are righ I do not understand the point about your video, but I certainly understand the issue you are arguing here.
So you are a former Catholic, please if you do not mind me asking, what makes you change? Which denomination do you belong to now, which I believe must be conveying a must suitable message for you than the very INSTITUTION, founder of Christianity. I am more amazed than you are. This what really bug my mind every time I walk about and ponder upon your Race. How comes you fail to make the difference between the Al-mighty and his(most high) creation, such a Rational Race?
Allah is a complex unity, now you're assigning that complexity to his creation, but not himself. You're the one who sounds confused.."How far have we gone, in understanding that Complex Creation( Human included)? Science tell us that we are capable of using only 1% of our brain capability. as for Nature more or less percentage can be related to it as far as our understanding is concerned. Let us try and FULLY UNDERSTAND ourselves and our Environment first. Nothingness has a GREAT MEANING...
1-self love = egotism this indeed is a quality that belongs to materialistic induviduals; a station that belongs to all those self proclaimed gods, rulers of human affairs. It does not fit any ordinary spiritual person, let alone a prophet. It is indeed the FIRST station of "TAWHID" just IN THE OPPOSITE DIRECTION. Strangely enough, it is a station you give to Issa(pbh) as soon as touch the NEW TESTAMENT: me, my, me, mine, me and my...
that is all you come across, no more ten commendments, no more Allah(swt), but Issa(pbh) alone and worst of all you simply do what the firts element of the TEN COMMANDMENTS forbids you: set associates to Allah(swt). No wonder yo do quote much about it.
3- Pious love: here you said that, it is the best of all form of love, since it consistes of giving with "THREE or MORE, whereby each of the TWO SENSE a NEED in the third and meets that needs.So who is in NEED here amongst the trio or plus?
This is where you knock your head against that might concrete wall that has always stood before those who came up with this silly idea of Issa(pbh) and the Al-mighty Creator and Gibril(pbh). If each one of your TRIO-LOVERS( or Multiple lovers) can be in such NEED so much so that the others can SENSE it, then you render all of them into a station of FEEBLENESS and WEAKNESS. This is where the Old Testament and Al-Qur'an comes in to put things on a straight-path("SIRATUL-MUSTAKI MA).
By the way, something else I wanted to ask you, if you don't mind. When did you find this LOVE in Bible? Because it seems to me that, it has been MISSING through out the history of CHRISTIANDOM to date. Otherwise how comes, the Church has enslaved its own congregation, by torture(inquisition), Rape and Murder(Mediaveal European wars, War I&II, the killing of native American, the Wild West stories, the killings of Southern Amerian Natives, the killings of Australian Natives, the killings Africans..
Why is it, with your claim of love as the message of Issa(pbh); you went around the globe, killing innocents people, and still you are doing it? Why is it, in the name of love you destroy people and their cultures. You talk about love in your community, this is far from truth, I am certain there are more MISTRUST and HATRED in that community of yours than anywhere else in the world. It is all too good to sit rught there in the confort of your living room and spite out all these NONSENSE
"Trio-lovers" and "multiple lovers"
Well my apologies if you find this is offensive. I do not mean it in that context; but of course, can you avoid people's mind wondering to that extend. So you see how complecated is your ways of explaining something that simple? This is why, "Tawhid is the first and foremost law or pillar in a TRUE MONOTHEISTIC RELIGION. Allah(swt)'s CREATION is so COMPLEX let alone HIMSELF(Unique in His Uniqueness)."trinity is God, Jesus and Mary" ask Catholics about that .
"...Honestly, you equivocate constantly. Respond to the points raised, not the inferences you hear..."Hear yourself saying,I am "Ambiguous" funny, isn't? The very issue we are arguing, the Ambiguity you surround the relationship between, Al-mighty Creator and His(most high) creation, instead of put it as simple as a slave and MASTER(Most Gracious). You are trying to be philosophical about it, by using words and expect people who hasn't got your mental capabilities to take it in as you want.
"...Inner Lillahi wa inner Illeyhi Razi-una..."The purpose of Islamic "Tawhid" is not to DEFINE or to try and Identify; what constitutes the Most High, instead the seeker will find him/herslef before a station filled with WONDERMENTS and a feeling of self Annihilation(Laa- illah illa HU, Al-wahidul AHAD)...(...010101010101000010 100010100010101010100010001010 001010101010001000001000010101 0...)."self-refuting",I would not use that word, because the matter is not US but HIM(Alone Praiseworthy)
"...I was raised in the Catholic Church, and was never taught "God, Jesus and Mary" as the Trinity. You are wrong...".
Well then you are not quite informed about a worldwide Catholic practices. Travel to Southern America or to the far-East, ask people what they think of Mary(pbher): "LADY" in heaven. Again this is why I ask you, how do you deal with the question of Mary(pbher)? For logic tells us: if Issa(pbh) is god' son and Mary(pbher) his(pbh) mother then please conclude that for me. You see?
Yes! I can see that you "love" philosophy, so did Kant and so did Freud, and Satre and especially Nietzsche. There is an empty space in your Theological Philosophy, you are trying through the BLINDNESS of LOVE to enter a FORBIDEN DOMAINE. Therefore to associate the seeker and The Most SOUGHT after: the Sublime and the ULTIMATE.May be you are righ I do not understand the point about your video, but I certainly understand the issue you are arguing here.
So you are a former Catholic, please if you do not mind me asking, what makes you change? Which denomination do you belong to now, which I believe must be conveying a must suitable message for you than the very INSTITUTION, founder of Christianity. I am more amazed than you are. This what really bug my mind every time I walk about and ponder upon your Race. How comes you fail to make the difference between the Al-mighty and his(most high) creation, such a Rational Race?
Allah is a complex unity, now you're assigning that complexity to his creation, but not himself. You're the one who sounds confused.."How far have we gone, in understanding that Complex Creation( Human included)? Science tell us that we are capable of using only 1% of our brain capability. as for Nature more or less percentage can be related to it as far as our understanding is concerned. Let us try and FULLY UNDERSTAND ourselves and our Environment first. Nothingness has a GREAT MEANING...
"Tawhid vs Trinity"
(Again another heated debat on Youtube, as indicates the title, please you are welcomed to leave a comment)
You see the problem you are having here? So if TRINITY doesn't appear in the bIBLE WHY ADOPT IT THEM? So here once again Qur'an is right, that you changed things in your Holy Books to suite yourselves, indeed.
"...Wa-illaha kum illahun Wahidun...""...Kul huwa Allahu Ahad...""Tawhid" as the Uniqueness or Oneness of Allah(swt) is the Basis of Islam and Qur'an, to say otherwise is just ignorance. As for Trinity, it has nothing to do with a mythical relationship of the Almighty Creator and His(most high) created beings. Your TRINITY is in other words not trinity as THREE different elements, but you claim that is your way to claim a sort of "tawhid" which of course is nonsense.
Again "Tawhid" is the Universal claim for A SINGLE SOURCE of CREATION. It is a single proclamation that is shared by all, as the way to attach to the Most Mighty Creator of the heavens and Earth and everything in between. Fort instance, this very computer can only understand that single LANGUAGE: "...LA ILlaha, illa -HU, Al-Wahidul AHAD...". This is also confirmed, by all Scientific subjects:Physics, Maths,Chemistry,Biology, Astrology, Geology even Evoltion. There is no other source but ONE
"...the possibility, revealed in the original languages of the Bible, that God may possess a complex unity..."
Well of course Allah(swt) can only be of a complex UNITY, but not as you wanted HIM(most high) to be. Allah(swt) cannot be explained or define or bind by certain law. There is no TIME and SPACE parameters in relation to HIM(most high); whilst Issa(pbh)and everything else are subjected to the laws of Nature one way or another. This is what Islam(Qur'an) or Old Testament are about indeed.
"...You simply prove yourself unwilling or unable to do anything but believe the Quran..."
No that is a wrong statement once again, as a Muslims, Allah(swt) ordered us to look around for His(swt) SIGNS(Scientific discoveries...etc), so no, once again if any one is having difficulties I think that is you. You are indeed trying to EXPLAIN a simple thing by a COMPLEX and IRRATIONAL ways. It has not worked for two millenia and it will never work till end of time. "Tawhid" is the UNIVERSAL language .
"...Jesus himself refers to the Father, Son and Holy Spirit..."
So let me ask you this: What about Issa(pbh) Mother(pbher)? The Good Lady who bore him for NINE FULL MONTHS, and look after Him(pbh) till he(pbh) reached maturity. How about her.Other thing, never a prophet keeps chanting about himself, but they all convey a message from their Lord(most High) to people. You have turned Issa(pbh) into an arrogant person who instead of talking about Allah(swt) but Himself(pbh): me., mine, me and my and me and mine...etc, this is Pagan.
A mare mortal calling himself Almighty god, we know where that comes from, of course it is purely Pagan. It is a behaviour of all those evil rulers who once upon time saw themselves as gods, just like today we have dictators IMMORTALISING themselves by dispalying their statues and photos everywhere. You will never hear them utter some else's name but themselves. They and only they existe, everything else under their shadow. PURE ARROGANCE not for a HUMBLE, PIOUS PERSON LIKE ISSA(pbh).
Well my friend listen to how you explain "trinity". You made LOVE as your base. Firts of all there is a big problem with that, since there is a general saying that "LOVE IS BLIND", so this can not be a good way to explain something you want people to see as a fact or TRUTH. Yes! indeed, we are loved by the Al-mighty Creator(who begot not and not begotten), for our special place relative to other creatures speaks volume. However that does not fit your explanation of trinity...
You see the problem you are having here? So if TRINITY doesn't appear in the bIBLE WHY ADOPT IT THEM? So here once again Qur'an is right, that you changed things in your Holy Books to suite yourselves, indeed.
"...Wa-illaha kum illahun Wahidun...""...Kul huwa Allahu Ahad...""Tawhid" as the Uniqueness or Oneness of Allah(swt) is the Basis of Islam and Qur'an, to say otherwise is just ignorance. As for Trinity, it has nothing to do with a mythical relationship of the Almighty Creator and His(most high) created beings. Your TRINITY is in other words not trinity as THREE different elements, but you claim that is your way to claim a sort of "tawhid" which of course is nonsense.
Again "Tawhid" is the Universal claim for A SINGLE SOURCE of CREATION. It is a single proclamation that is shared by all, as the way to attach to the Most Mighty Creator of the heavens and Earth and everything in between. Fort instance, this very computer can only understand that single LANGUAGE: "...LA ILlaha, illa -HU, Al-Wahidul AHAD...". This is also confirmed, by all Scientific subjects:Physics, Maths,Chemistry,Biology, Astrology, Geology even Evoltion. There is no other source but ONE
"...the possibility, revealed in the original languages of the Bible, that God may possess a complex unity..."
Well of course Allah(swt) can only be of a complex UNITY, but not as you wanted HIM(most high) to be. Allah(swt) cannot be explained or define or bind by certain law. There is no TIME and SPACE parameters in relation to HIM(most high); whilst Issa(pbh)and everything else are subjected to the laws of Nature one way or another. This is what Islam(Qur'an) or Old Testament are about indeed.
"...You simply prove yourself unwilling or unable to do anything but believe the Quran..."
No that is a wrong statement once again, as a Muslims, Allah(swt) ordered us to look around for His(swt) SIGNS(Scientific discoveries...etc), so no, once again if any one is having difficulties I think that is you. You are indeed trying to EXPLAIN a simple thing by a COMPLEX and IRRATIONAL ways. It has not worked for two millenia and it will never work till end of time. "Tawhid" is the UNIVERSAL language .
"...Jesus himself refers to the Father, Son and Holy Spirit..."
So let me ask you this: What about Issa(pbh) Mother(pbher)? The Good Lady who bore him for NINE FULL MONTHS, and look after Him(pbh) till he(pbh) reached maturity. How about her.Other thing, never a prophet keeps chanting about himself, but they all convey a message from their Lord(most High) to people. You have turned Issa(pbh) into an arrogant person who instead of talking about Allah(swt) but Himself(pbh): me., mine, me and my and me and mine...etc, this is Pagan.
A mare mortal calling himself Almighty god, we know where that comes from, of course it is purely Pagan. It is a behaviour of all those evil rulers who once upon time saw themselves as gods, just like today we have dictators IMMORTALISING themselves by dispalying their statues and photos everywhere. You will never hear them utter some else's name but themselves. They and only they existe, everything else under their shadow. PURE ARROGANCE not for a HUMBLE, PIOUS PERSON LIKE ISSA(pbh).
Well my friend listen to how you explain "trinity". You made LOVE as your base. Firts of all there is a big problem with that, since there is a general saying that "LOVE IS BLIND", so this can not be a good way to explain something you want people to see as a fact or TRUTH. Yes! indeed, we are loved by the Al-mighty Creator(who begot not and not begotten), for our special place relative to other creatures speaks volume. However that does not fit your explanation of trinity...
Thursday, 22 January 2009
Conversation about Issa(pbh)'s " Divinity" 03
Well! well! so you too once was a "Muslim", I am getting use to this catch phrase now. I feel very sorry for you indeed.
"...lack of historical context, indeed, Islam lacks everything indeed..."
Which Historical context you are referring here that is missing in Islam? Stop denying TRUTH. Truth is your only way to salvation, I should remind you.
"...Now...do you know what context is? Do you realize that neither you nor the Quran can define "truth" without some frame of reference?
Are you saying this is the meaning of context? My goodness. It is hard for you and the Church fathers to define "truth" for that is what you are trying to destroy. Jesus(pbh) indeed told you that only "Truth" will set you free. Allah(swt) is the ULTIMATE TRUTH, and the only Truth, as a matter of fact, this is what Jesus(pbh) and Al-Qur'an are about. This is why NO ONE can define Allah(swt).
the "NEED" for God Himself to redeem us, to save us, from ourselves.This is where your Theology is gone completely ABSURD, Allah(swt) in "NEED!!!???".
What on earth are you talking about? Our Maker(Most High) is NEVER in need, simply the OPPOSITE, His(most high) creations needs Him(Most Merciful).But of course this is where, you confuse Allah(swt) with Man. I do agree with you that we human do hurt ourselves in saying that; are you saying Allah(swt) do get hurt as well? You see your line of REASON.
"...lack of historical context, indeed, Islam lacks everything indeed..."
Which Historical context you are referring here that is missing in Islam? Stop denying TRUTH. Truth is your only way to salvation, I should remind you.
"...Now...do you know what context is? Do you realize that neither you nor the Quran can define "truth" without some frame of reference?
Are you saying this is the meaning of context? My goodness. It is hard for you and the Church fathers to define "truth" for that is what you are trying to destroy. Jesus(pbh) indeed told you that only "Truth" will set you free. Allah(swt) is the ULTIMATE TRUTH, and the only Truth, as a matter of fact, this is what Jesus(pbh) and Al-Qur'an are about. This is why NO ONE can define Allah(swt).
the "NEED" for God Himself to redeem us, to save us, from ourselves.This is where your Theology is gone completely ABSURD, Allah(swt) in "NEED!!!???".
What on earth are you talking about? Our Maker(Most High) is NEVER in need, simply the OPPOSITE, His(most high) creations needs Him(Most Merciful).But of course this is where, you confuse Allah(swt) with Man. I do agree with you that we human do hurt ourselves in saying that; are you saying Allah(swt) do get hurt as well? You see your line of REASON.
Conversation about Issa(pbh)'s " Divinity" 02
What is GOD?
Does Jesus(pbh) answers to the call of nature?
Does he sleeps?
Does he eats and drinks?
Does he washes?
Does he get tied?
Does he pray?
If so how does he do it?
Does Mary's(peace upon her) pregnancy went as we know all the details now, one month, two, three or normal NINE MONTH? Did his blessed mother suckled him? If you answer yes to all or even one of these questions then OBVIOUSLY HE CANNOT BE the CREATOR but the CREATED
This what I am trying to tell you here, TRINITY became part of Christianity around the 3rd or 4th century. In fact there some serious conflict between different factions(Unitarians and Trinitarians) in Christiandom before the matter settled through force. The NT account of Jesus(pbh)has more in common with the pagan world(ROME, EGYPT, HINDUISM,...) than the PURE MONOTHEISM of the early Isrealistes and JEWISH people. The "I AM" has something to do with Moses, instead. Why not finish the verse?
Trinity is the divine relation between Him(most High)and His creation. It is not a state of equality but that detachment and differentiation. For the Creator(swt) is One in His Uniqueness; everything else is created in a state of DUALITY. This is well expressed in setting of PRIME NUMBERS: 1,1,2,3..., these three digits represent the whole of creation, they are the most IMPORTANT NUMBERS in the Mystic World and of course:(5&6)as we can see 5=2+3 and 6=2x3x1=1+2+3, {(6x6=36)x(5+5=10)}=360,
"The message of the NT has lasted some 600 years longer than that of the Qur'an", A statement like this, is why I am urging you to try; at least be sure of what you are talking about. You are wrong about the date of the NT(600 years). The original NT was compiled under the authority of an EVIL emperor(Constantine I)and the date is: 325AD at Nicea. There use to be thousands of Gospels roaming that part of Christiandom. There were camps concerning Trinity and Unity of Allah(swt).
What about before "his resurrection", why didn't he says something about it? Or he did became god after he died!!!! died!!!died, resurrected!!! death and resurrection!!!, are listening my friend of course you are but can not hear looking but can not see!!! Well I am trying to draw your attention to your own History(Christianity) exactly what I was saying, you know little about the History behind Christiandom, but only the edited Bible you read and believe that is Christianity. Make an effort.
Again despite your hatred of the word Allah(swt), if only you know what it means, you will stop making fun of yourself. The word is spelled onto you in your own language(English). Take a look:Put yourself in Da-Vinci' diagram the combination of both the CIRCLE and SQUARE, start from your right or left Arm and take the full 360d.A=ArmL=legL=LegA=ArmH=HEADThis is us a full human being, our everything point to Allah(swt) in prayers. When you move any of your parts,you are giving a praise.
Well the thing is you sound confused or you are indeed completely confused." being both fully man and fully God, participated in humanity and understands His creation fully". One you need to know yourself(know thou self) to do that start from the elementary stage of learning BIOLOGY, when you fully UNDERSTAND YOURSELF then and only then you will be able to establish the DIFFERENCE between YOU(Jesus a man) and OUR MAKER. Allah(swt)is outside the sphere of knowledge therefore can not be "known".
Here again you are missing the point, in reference to Allah(swt)being the source of everything. So if that is the case in your believe, why does Evil come from then? Yes Allah(swt) created everything and that "everything" started with the state of Duality or Positive and Negative force. This through out history has been translated as gods and goddesses. The Positive force or good force were classify as good gods/goddesses, while the negatives forces or Destructive one are the bad ones.
The word Allah in Arabic has a number value of 66. For instance:A=Alif=1L=lam=30L=lam=30H=ha=51+5+30+30=66; 6x6=36; 5x6=30; 1+5=6; Now let say you are dissecting human body and place each part aside, you will notice that all the organs internal and external are into pairs. But look carefully about the SHAPE the number "6" in them especially our external body parts. For instance our Arm with the shoulder together are in the shape of "6" and they have "5" digits at the end. Same for the feet.
There is NO duality with Allah(swt) or near HIM(swt, He(most High) is ONE and UNIQUE, everything you raised to his position becomes nothing but the thing itself (X power 1=X). For centuries, Church founders tried to explain this Mythical relationship but failed, no can these Modern days; when we know everything about man.In fact is not only Islam that is exposing your misconceptions about Jesus(pbh) but Science has been doing much of the work for Muslims and for Jesus(pbh) himself.
"Words devoid of clear definitions are indeed nonsense..."Well you have said yourself, isn't it what you Church has been doing for all these years of MISLEADING. For as Muslim, indeed it is that very meaning we have trying to prove to you all a long. Even Jesus(pbh) tried to clarify this particular relationship between man and Maker(swt), instead you have decided to follow those foolish Roman believes and the rest of Polytheist world.
Everything comes from Allah(swt), there was nothing but Him(most high) ALONE. By His own desire He(swt) started creation, and none of that is like Him(swt). As for Al-Qur'an it just like Jesus(pbh) both are words(light) send down to mankind. They were both brought by the Jibril(pbh)one to a PIOUS Lady and the other to a Trustworthy man, both as guidance and signs to humanity. They are just part of that infinite creation of the CREATOR. They can be like HIM(swt). They are WORDS!!!! WORDS!!!
In order to have any frame of reference to understand the Quran, you need to be familiar with the OT, and even then the message of the Quran reads like a Jewish talmudic polemic against Christianity". This is the exact message of Jesus(pbh) and of all the prophets, To go back to the roots(OT). Instead you the Gentiles decided to create your own version(NT) with an Evil BOUNTY HUNTER{Paul, who actually never saw Jesus(pbh)}, as a the leading author and Mark, Matthew, Luke and James.
Does Jesus(pbh) answers to the call of nature?
Does he sleeps?
Does he eats and drinks?
Does he washes?
Does he get tied?
Does he pray?
If so how does he do it?
Does Mary's(peace upon her) pregnancy went as we know all the details now, one month, two, three or normal NINE MONTH? Did his blessed mother suckled him? If you answer yes to all or even one of these questions then OBVIOUSLY HE CANNOT BE the CREATOR but the CREATED
This what I am trying to tell you here, TRINITY became part of Christianity around the 3rd or 4th century. In fact there some serious conflict between different factions(Unitarians and Trinitarians) in Christiandom before the matter settled through force. The NT account of Jesus(pbh)has more in common with the pagan world(ROME, EGYPT, HINDUISM,...) than the PURE MONOTHEISM of the early Isrealistes and JEWISH people. The "I AM" has something to do with Moses, instead. Why not finish the verse?
Trinity is the divine relation between Him(most High)and His creation. It is not a state of equality but that detachment and differentiation. For the Creator(swt) is One in His Uniqueness; everything else is created in a state of DUALITY. This is well expressed in setting of PRIME NUMBERS: 1,1,2,3..., these three digits represent the whole of creation, they are the most IMPORTANT NUMBERS in the Mystic World and of course:(5&6)as we can see 5=2+3 and 6=2x3x1=1+2+3, {(6x6=36)x(5+5=10)}=360,
"The message of the NT has lasted some 600 years longer than that of the Qur'an", A statement like this, is why I am urging you to try; at least be sure of what you are talking about. You are wrong about the date of the NT(600 years). The original NT was compiled under the authority of an EVIL emperor(Constantine I)and the date is: 325AD at Nicea. There use to be thousands of Gospels roaming that part of Christiandom. There were camps concerning Trinity and Unity of Allah(swt).
What about before "his resurrection", why didn't he says something about it? Or he did became god after he died!!!! died!!!died, resurrected!!! death and resurrection!!!, are listening my friend of course you are but can not hear looking but can not see!!! Well I am trying to draw your attention to your own History(Christianity) exactly what I was saying, you know little about the History behind Christiandom, but only the edited Bible you read and believe that is Christianity. Make an effort.
Again despite your hatred of the word Allah(swt), if only you know what it means, you will stop making fun of yourself. The word is spelled onto you in your own language(English). Take a look:Put yourself in Da-Vinci' diagram the combination of both the CIRCLE and SQUARE, start from your right or left Arm and take the full 360d.A=ArmL=legL=LegA=ArmH=HEADThis is us a full human being, our everything point to Allah(swt) in prayers. When you move any of your parts,you are giving a praise.
Well the thing is you sound confused or you are indeed completely confused." being both fully man and fully God, participated in humanity and understands His creation fully". One you need to know yourself(know thou self) to do that start from the elementary stage of learning BIOLOGY, when you fully UNDERSTAND YOURSELF then and only then you will be able to establish the DIFFERENCE between YOU(Jesus a man) and OUR MAKER. Allah(swt)is outside the sphere of knowledge therefore can not be "known".
Here again you are missing the point, in reference to Allah(swt)being the source of everything. So if that is the case in your believe, why does Evil come from then? Yes Allah(swt) created everything and that "everything" started with the state of Duality or Positive and Negative force. This through out history has been translated as gods and goddesses. The Positive force or good force were classify as good gods/goddesses, while the negatives forces or Destructive one are the bad ones.
The word Allah in Arabic has a number value of 66. For instance:A=Alif=1L=lam=30L=lam=30H=ha=51+5+30+30=66; 6x6=36; 5x6=30; 1+5=6; Now let say you are dissecting human body and place each part aside, you will notice that all the organs internal and external are into pairs. But look carefully about the SHAPE the number "6" in them especially our external body parts. For instance our Arm with the shoulder together are in the shape of "6" and they have "5" digits at the end. Same for the feet.
There is NO duality with Allah(swt) or near HIM(swt, He(most High) is ONE and UNIQUE, everything you raised to his position becomes nothing but the thing itself (X power 1=X). For centuries, Church founders tried to explain this Mythical relationship but failed, no can these Modern days; when we know everything about man.In fact is not only Islam that is exposing your misconceptions about Jesus(pbh) but Science has been doing much of the work for Muslims and for Jesus(pbh) himself.
"Words devoid of clear definitions are indeed nonsense..."Well you have said yourself, isn't it what you Church has been doing for all these years of MISLEADING. For as Muslim, indeed it is that very meaning we have trying to prove to you all a long. Even Jesus(pbh) tried to clarify this particular relationship between man and Maker(swt), instead you have decided to follow those foolish Roman believes and the rest of Polytheist world.
Everything comes from Allah(swt), there was nothing but Him(most high) ALONE. By His own desire He(swt) started creation, and none of that is like Him(swt). As for Al-Qur'an it just like Jesus(pbh) both are words(light) send down to mankind. They were both brought by the Jibril(pbh)one to a PIOUS Lady and the other to a Trustworthy man, both as guidance and signs to humanity. They are just part of that infinite creation of the CREATOR. They can be like HIM(swt). They are WORDS!!!! WORDS!!!
In order to have any frame of reference to understand the Quran, you need to be familiar with the OT, and even then the message of the Quran reads like a Jewish talmudic polemic against Christianity". This is the exact message of Jesus(pbh) and of all the prophets, To go back to the roots(OT). Instead you the Gentiles decided to create your own version(NT) with an Evil BOUNTY HUNTER{Paul, who actually never saw Jesus(pbh)}, as a the leading author and Mark, Matthew, Luke and James.
Conversation about Issa(pbh) "Divinity" 01
By asserting that Your Maker(swt), Allah who is the Most High, Most Powerful, in order to: listen to this nonsense of your: "UNDERSTAND HIS CREATION BECAME A MAN(Jesus), you have define Him(Most High) not only define him but worst of all DEMEAN HIM(swt). What you do not realise, whenever you are saying these idiotic words, even the DEVIL run away from you. It is the WORST BLASPHEMOUS WORD you can ever utter.Think my friend, think of yourself. "know thyself" it the way to salvation.
I want to help a little bit. There is a very important place, a place of great wisdom, a place that can HUMBLED any SINCERE Human being. It is a place of disgust, a place where we have to use as long as we live: TOILETS.Whenever you went in to answer the call of Nature, after you finished please do not flush it straight away, take time and a look at it and also do not use tissue on you for a moment just to feel/smell the substance. After a whilst wash up and sit there again and ponder, think.
Ask yourself after you felt and smell the substance, are you Human and was Jesus(pbh) too human? If you are sincere and your answer is YES, you are indeed an human being and indeed Jesus(pbh) was a HUMAN BEING as well, then repent of your dreadful sins otherwise Hell fire is waiting for you. Allah(swt) who created everything, from the things we know and the infinite things we do not know and will never know, just to forgive man of his sins, does HE(swt) needs to BECOME SO LOW!, SO LOW!
Again if you hate toilets, why not try to remember whenever you need to sleep or come from it. How weak were you before and after the sleep. Anyone who holds onto these foolish pagan believe, is just IGNORANT of HUMAN CONDITION. We are very low, from our beginning , during our life time and our ends. Of all beings man is the lowest of low, yet the most loved by Allah(swt). Such a Great Nation, I can even say indeed your Race is so far the Greatest of all Races that ever lived on the face of this planet as far as we know. A Nation so gifted as Rational beings, yet you failed to DISTINGUISH between these two realities(Material and Spiritual Realms), you failed to differentiate Man and his Maker(most high). Qur'an which describes you best, a book that talks so much about you, I even sometime think of all the races, it is sent especially to you, but no you doubt.
I want to help a little bit. There is a very important place, a place of great wisdom, a place that can HUMBLED any SINCERE Human being. It is a place of disgust, a place where we have to use as long as we live: TOILETS.Whenever you went in to answer the call of Nature, after you finished please do not flush it straight away, take time and a look at it and also do not use tissue on you for a moment just to feel/smell the substance. After a whilst wash up and sit there again and ponder, think.
Ask yourself after you felt and smell the substance, are you Human and was Jesus(pbh) too human? If you are sincere and your answer is YES, you are indeed an human being and indeed Jesus(pbh) was a HUMAN BEING as well, then repent of your dreadful sins otherwise Hell fire is waiting for you. Allah(swt) who created everything, from the things we know and the infinite things we do not know and will never know, just to forgive man of his sins, does HE(swt) needs to BECOME SO LOW!, SO LOW!
Again if you hate toilets, why not try to remember whenever you need to sleep or come from it. How weak were you before and after the sleep. Anyone who holds onto these foolish pagan believe, is just IGNORANT of HUMAN CONDITION. We are very low, from our beginning , during our life time and our ends. Of all beings man is the lowest of low, yet the most loved by Allah(swt). Such a Great Nation, I can even say indeed your Race is so far the Greatest of all Races that ever lived on the face of this planet as far as we know. A Nation so gifted as Rational beings, yet you failed to DISTINGUISH between these two realities(Material and Spiritual Realms), you failed to differentiate Man and his Maker(most high). Qur'an which describes you best, a book that talks so much about you, I even sometime think of all the races, it is sent especially to you, but no you doubt.
Conversation with a non-Muslim
"...One never hurt anyone, preached love for all people and lived a life of moral restrain..."
My question to you and all those who are so blind of the fact that the very Bible you take as your Holy Book is also FULL OF WARFARE, how comes then THAT YOU NEVER FOLLOW THAT LOVE AND PEACEFULL PATH OF ISSA(pbh)? Instead as history and current world affairs prove it, the whole HISTORY of Christiandom has just BEEN exactly IN CONTRAST of ISSA(pbh)'s life? Muhammed(pbh) was asked by My LORD and yours...
To fight the Pagan Arabs, just as it was ordained for, ancient Israelists to fight aginst those who opposed their believe and way of life. Either you are a real HYPOCRITE or simply you do not know about the STORIES of PROPHETS in that book(old Testament). In other hand, looking at what you have chosen as your type of Christianity, which is based on FALSEHOOD, you are free to assign anything against Muslims and Muhammed(pbh). A complete waste of time, you can not change a thing, Islam will GROW
The other thing about your beatings of LOVE and PEACE drums when it comes to Christianity, may I ask you WHEN DID YOU CHRISTIANS START NOTICING THAT LOVE and PEACE WERE THE PRINCIPAL MESSAGE OF ISSA(pbh)? My reason to asking you this and any other Christian out there, is the fact NOWHERE IN THE ENTIRE CHRISTIAN HISTORY, THAT LOVE AND PEACEFULL NATURE CAN BE TRACED. The very moment Christians took over the ancient Rome after the collaspe of BYZANTIUM,BLOOD STARTS POURING DOWN LIKE A FOUNTAIN.
You are nearly as older as I am, but sincerely you sound very immature or certainly you do not know much about your own Religion, with all that, you decide to have ago at Muslims and Islam, through ocean of ignorance. When Christian kingdom was installed, BUTCHERING, RAPE with all sorts of ABUSES, started right with her own citizen, accusing some of HERESY, others of WITCHCRAFT and so on and so forth. Together with the Aristocrates, they besiege their own people, sucking everything out of them. Even today nowhere in Christiandom, this LOVE and Peace can be found. "...Love thou neighbour as thou self..." This suppose to be one of your GREEDS, but people are dying here alone in there homes, until they rot for years before someone will tumble onto their dry bones. You can live with people for your entire life, you would not know your neighbours. People will only smile with you when they need to do BUSINESS with you, other word: SMILE=FINANCIAL GAIN. Travel to any Muslim country and see .
"...The Islam spread by sworn and Gazya (tax impose for non Muslim till they beleive or converted by to Islam by force or get kill )..."
Here again History prove you wrong, for if you have heart about the Islamic Spain, where MUSLIMS, JEWS and CHRISTIANS and NON-BELIEVERS all lived together in communities share much of their daily life activities. So has it been through out the Islamic Empire. There is no force in Islam("...La-ikraha, fi DINI..."), YOUR WAYS TO YOU AND OUR WAYS TO US
My question to you and all those who are so blind of the fact that the very Bible you take as your Holy Book is also FULL OF WARFARE, how comes then THAT YOU NEVER FOLLOW THAT LOVE AND PEACEFULL PATH OF ISSA(pbh)? Instead as history and current world affairs prove it, the whole HISTORY of Christiandom has just BEEN exactly IN CONTRAST of ISSA(pbh)'s life? Muhammed(pbh) was asked by My LORD and yours...
To fight the Pagan Arabs, just as it was ordained for, ancient Israelists to fight aginst those who opposed their believe and way of life. Either you are a real HYPOCRITE or simply you do not know about the STORIES of PROPHETS in that book(old Testament). In other hand, looking at what you have chosen as your type of Christianity, which is based on FALSEHOOD, you are free to assign anything against Muslims and Muhammed(pbh). A complete waste of time, you can not change a thing, Islam will GROW
The other thing about your beatings of LOVE and PEACE drums when it comes to Christianity, may I ask you WHEN DID YOU CHRISTIANS START NOTICING THAT LOVE and PEACE WERE THE PRINCIPAL MESSAGE OF ISSA(pbh)? My reason to asking you this and any other Christian out there, is the fact NOWHERE IN THE ENTIRE CHRISTIAN HISTORY, THAT LOVE AND PEACEFULL NATURE CAN BE TRACED. The very moment Christians took over the ancient Rome after the collaspe of BYZANTIUM,BLOOD STARTS POURING DOWN LIKE A FOUNTAIN.
You are nearly as older as I am, but sincerely you sound very immature or certainly you do not know much about your own Religion, with all that, you decide to have ago at Muslims and Islam, through ocean of ignorance. When Christian kingdom was installed, BUTCHERING, RAPE with all sorts of ABUSES, started right with her own citizen, accusing some of HERESY, others of WITCHCRAFT and so on and so forth. Together with the Aristocrates, they besiege their own people, sucking everything out of them. Even today nowhere in Christiandom, this LOVE and Peace can be found. "...Love thou neighbour as thou self..." This suppose to be one of your GREEDS, but people are dying here alone in there homes, until they rot for years before someone will tumble onto their dry bones. You can live with people for your entire life, you would not know your neighbours. People will only smile with you when they need to do BUSINESS with you, other word: SMILE=FINANCIAL GAIN. Travel to any Muslim country and see .
"...The Islam spread by sworn and Gazya (tax impose for non Muslim till they beleive or converted by to Islam by force or get kill )..."
Here again History prove you wrong, for if you have heart about the Islamic Spain, where MUSLIMS, JEWS and CHRISTIANS and NON-BELIEVERS all lived together in communities share much of their daily life activities. So has it been through out the Islamic Empire. There is no force in Islam("...La-ikraha, fi DINI..."), YOUR WAYS TO YOU AND OUR WAYS TO US
Subscribe to:
Posts (Atom)
